Curse

Narutoscryed · Aug 18, 2006, 07:05 AM // 07:05

A few of my guildy buddies and i run a ballanced team arena build.. it is as follows

Knockdown warrior w/e (hammer)
Blind bot (e/me)
Heal monk
Shutdown mesmer

we run this build with some success. but more often than not.. we run into a real hex hevy team and get eaten alive.. usually 1 mes 1 monk 2 r/w thumpers. but we also have trouble with a dual smite team.. that consists of 2 monks and 2 thumpers.

usually The warrior is assigned to kill the monk.. then the flashbot is assigned to blind the mele and to help with a finish spike on monk if needed.
im not to sure what the mesmer does... and of course the monk heals us.

alota the time the monk will go down withought trouble.. then get rezed and the warrior will go at the monk again. at this time the monk starts kiting and pretty much takes the warrior completly outa the fight. (reversal of fortune sucks)

Now the match goes on even for about a few minutes.. but then the thumpers finally get a break from blind cause the ele is outa energy and BAM monk is down.. so the warrior breaks off the monk to rez his own monk and BAM.. thumpers got the ele.. and from there on its pretty much an ass raping..

if anyone has any ideas on how a ballanced team could beat these teams.. that would be great.

i think our current record for matches in a row is somthing like 1 win 8 losses

stokey · Aug 18, 2006, 07:49 AM // 07:49

In my experience, it's usually a good idea to target the casters bothering your team first. It drains the monk's energy and it takes pressure off your monk. If the caster refuses to stop casting, it should be an easy kill since he won't be kiting.

Target the enemy monk when you get your adrenaline up for an adrenaline spike or take him out when you can tell his energy is low. Build up your adrenaline again when they're rezzing him and take him out when he gets up.

JR · Aug 18, 2006, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narutoscryed

Now the match goes on even for about a few minutes.. but then the thumpers finally get a break from blind cause the ele is outa energy and BAM monk is down..

Quite honestly the two thumper + me/n + boon prot seems to be the strongest build i've seen in TA recently. Having now run it a few times it quite honestly seems hard not to flawless anything other than a very good (single) smite team.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

chimpy11 · Aug 18, 2006, 09:53 AM // 09:53

General tips first:

Your balanced needs some tweaking.

Most blindbots will go monk 2nd and take draw conditions, if you dont you'll most likely get owned by other good balanced teams. Also your W should never ever go for the monk if you have a shutdown mesmer, the only time maybe he should do this is for an adrenal spike but even that's debatable. Another thing you might want to consider is to run a heavy knockdown W with shove + shock + hammer bash, unconditional knockdown is very powerful in TA for disruption because your W will most likely be blind a lot. This also helps immensely against teams with an Rt.

Against 2 thumper + 1 me + 1 boonprot:

K first thing to say is make sure you cover attunes on your ele, holy veil and reversal before you go in (one of the main reasons blindbots run out of energy is because of strpping, otherwise you really should have no energy problems) and keep doing it through the match. This is pretty much GG if your ele's attunes cant be stripped. I'm of course assumming you're running dual attunes, if you run ether prodigy that's just shatter bait.

Now most of the time the mesmer on their team will take draw, ask your mesmer to divert it. If their mesmer is monk-shutdown your W will take him down very quickly since they have no W-hate. If it's ineptitude then you should have no problems since ur mesmer should take expel. you might also wanna consider taking channeling on your monk. Other than that you really should have no problems, it's just about how well you play.

In my experience the 2 thumpers + 1 me + 1 boon build is never a problem for a balanced build if the balanced play well. When it comes to 2 thumper teams, the bigger problem for me generally is when people go 2 thumpers + 2 boons, not a smiter because any good mesmer will strip zealots and balth aura and it's GG. Then it just gets kinda ugly cause it's always hard for a balanced to kill 2 boons but still a good balanced should come out on top.

JR · Aug 18, 2006, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Shove and Bash? Two skills that cause you to lose all adrenaline? No thanks. Devastating or Backbreaker. Against single monk teams you can normally spike monks out pretty easily with Backbreaker/Crushing/Fierce/Lightning Orb/Shatter Enchantment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chimpy11

This is pretty much GG if your ele's attunes cant be stripped. I'm of course assumming you're running dual attunes, if you run ether prodigy that's just shatter bait.

Er, how is Ether Prodigy Shatter bait, when Attunes aren't?

Ether Prodigy gives you a lot of energy over a shorter time, thus you only need to keep it covered for that time. Attunes rely on being up ALL of the time, and therefore need to be covered all of the time.

The same note with Smiters, you can quite easily cover Zealots with Channeling, or something simmilar.

chimpy11 · Aug 18, 2006, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Er, how is Ether Prodigy Shatter bait, when Attunes aren't?

Ether Prodigy gives you a lot of energy over a shorter time, thus you only need to keep it covered for that time. Attunes rely on being up ALL of the time, and therefore need to be covered all of the time.

Well if you keep dual attunes covered the 1st time chances are they'll try to shatter and lose both enchantment (maybe 3) removals doing this, that's 20 secs you dont have to worry about shatters and you can cast away. Also with dual attunes it's quite easy to time it so that you can recast attunes 5-10 secs into the match. On the other hand if you use ether prod that would be some time into the match when it's not so easy for a monk to cover your ether prod since they're being screwed by a shutdown mesmer, I have very rarely seen this happen in TA, even against very good teams so I can only assume that it's not so easy to cover mid-match. And if you just have one ether prod shattered that's no energy + extra dmg which will pretty much mean GG.

On the note of the hammer W, I can see your point of course. Believe me when I say that we have used a conventional hammer W often and just don't find it works as well as one with more disruption. It gets tough playing against teams with a Rt when you cant interrupt any of the spirits. and why is adrenaline important when you're running one skill that needs adrenaline (hammer bash)? OK you might run out of energy but if you can knockdown 1 or 2 key skills then the match should be yours.

With both the above, the reason I prefer them is that the meat of a match generally ends in just over a minute (not counting the start when u're running in and the end when u're just mopping up) so the initial skirmish can decide the whole match. To me both dual attunes and disrupt W gives you the advantage there.

And please, I dont mind constructive critism , but dont talk to me as if I just dreamt these ideas up and they're completely untested in TA.

JR · Aug 18, 2006, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by chimpy11

Well if you keep dual attunes covered the 1st time chances are they'll try to shatter and lose both enchantment (maybe 3) removals doing this, that's 20 secs you dont have to worry about shatters and you can cast away. Also with dual attunes it's quite easy to time it so that you can recast attunes 5-10 secs into the match. On the other hand if you use ether prod that would be some time into the match when it's not so easy for a monk to cover your ether prod since they're being screwed by a shutdown mesmer, I have very rarely seen this happen in TA, even against very good teams so I can only assume that it's not so easy to cover mid-match. And if you just have one ether prod shattered that's no energy + extra dmg which will pretty much mean GG.

I'm not going to argue on the Warrior, as I don't think I would actually get anywhere. The Attunes/Prodigy thing still puzzles me.

Surely a good team would see the covers going on, and just wait? Reversal or Guardian as a cover are going to have a very short duration, and spamming them repeatedly is going to strain your monk. Veil also requires a pip of energy regen to keep up, so that wont last long. With the long duration of Attunes you would have to keep them perma-covered against a good team.

With Prodigy your Monk CAN pretty much just throw a single Guardian or something on you, and you will still get a fair amount of energy even if they shatter it just as it wears off.

TheOneMephisto · Aug 18, 2006, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I'm not going to argue on the Warrior, as I don't think I would actually get anywhere. The Attunes/Prodigy thing still puzzles me.

Surely a good team would see the covers going on, and just wait? Reversal or Guardian as a cover are going to have a very short duration, and spamming them repeatedly is going to strain your monk. Veil also requires a pip of energy regen to keep up, so that wont last long. With the long duration of Attunes you would have to keep them perma-covered against a good team.

With Prodigy your Monk CAN pretty much just throw a single Guardian or something on you, and you will still get a fair amount of energy even if they shatter it just as it wears off.

I have to agree. I know that every time we play in TA the mesmer makes it a priority to strip attunements every time possible. THere's no really good covers, unles you feel like using ANOTHER skill slot. Holy veil means no ihex for energy and another pip gone... so just no.

Does anyone seriously try to cover attunements with guardian?

chimpy11 · Aug 18, 2006, 01:43 PM // 13:43

I think your argument for ether prodigy as a more viable long-term solution to e-management is fair enough, which is precisely why in GvGs that is almost the only e-management used.

But I'm trying to argue the merits in TA, where matches are short and a small short-term advantage matters to a large extent. To me (and I often play the shutdown mesmer) dual attunes are much harder to shatter than ether prod. And as I already said, if you can shatter the 1st ether prod then the ele is practically done for. So to me ether prod is a much less stable option in TA.

JR · Aug 18, 2006, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Your argument makes no sense. If you can shatter the Ether Prodigy, why can't you shatter the Attunement? Both have the ability to be covered, and Ether Prodigy has such a short recharge that you *can* just put it back up and get the energy quickly, while the Mesmers enchant strips are recharging. Attunements have a long recharge, so if you can strip them the Ele really does have problems.

reaxzor · Aug 18, 2006, 02:40 PM // 14:40

i use aura of restoration to cover my attunements, with 5 second recharge u can cast again quite easily when stripped

JR · Aug 18, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Terrible shame that it's also a complete waste of a skill slot otherwise.

TheOneMephisto · Aug 18, 2006, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaxzor

i use aura of restoration to cover my attunements, with 5 second recharge u can cast again quite easily when stripped

So your using 3 skill slots to try to meet the efficiency of 1?

reaxzor · Aug 18, 2006, 04:17 PM // 16:17

i never run out of energy with double attunement, i do with ether prodigy

TheOneMephisto · Aug 18, 2006, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaxzor

i never run out of energy with double attunement, i do with ether prodigy

No offense, but I read this as "I'm spamming skills like a madman on crack and am not using ether prodigy correctly because it's slightly harder to use."

If you're running out of energy with something like 8, more if you count that you don't really need to worry about exhaustion in TA, pips of energy, then something's wrong.